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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

AlessandroCatalano
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da AlessandroCatalano Mar Mag 18, 2021 2:02 pm

Buongiorno,

Apro questa nuova discussione per avere delucidazioni in merito a questi due tipi di stili. Quale sono i vantaggi dell'uno verso l'altro, come cambia il sound, e la rumorosità ? Ho preso spunto dalle dimensioni dei due stili presenti sula Benz Micro LP: FG-S: 5 x 120 e MR 3 x 70.

Un saluto

Alessandro


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carloc
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Re: Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da carloc Mar Mag 18, 2021 4:12 pm

Ciao Alessandro,
ti giro quello che ne pensa in merito un tale John Carr

Among cartridge manufacturers, "micro line" is used only to refer to the microline and microridge styli manufactured by Namiki Jewel. Among audiophiles, however, it appears to be used more broadly to designate advanced line-contact styli in general, which is wrong and a source of confusion.

The major hallmark of the microridge profile is that contact with the LP groove is achieved by side wings or ridges that protrude to either side of the stylus. If you could look at a microridge from directly above with a microscope, you would see that these ridges stand proud of the main section of the stylus, and have a very narrow side radius of 2.5um. Due to the small side radius, the microridge has better high-frequency capabilities than any other stylus shape, and due to the protruding nature of the ridges, the microridge can be worn perceptibly and still retain its high-frequency tracking capabilities. With other stylus profiles, wear causes the side radii to become bigger and bigger, and this means that the high-frequency tracking capabilities deteriorate.

However, there is more to a stylus than just the side radius. If you look at a line-contact stylus from the front, you will see that it is shaped like a spearhead with curved (convex) blades. This curvature is referred to as the major radius, and the shape and size determines the vertical length of the stylus' contact patch with the LP groove. The larger the major radius, the longer the contact patch becomes, but alignment becomes less tolerant of errors.

The the Ogura PA has major radius of 30~35um, the microridges have a major radius of about 70~75um, while stylii like the Replicant 120 and Gyger S will have a major radius of about 120um. As you can surmise, the microridges can track more of the groove than a PA, and a Gyger S can track even more of the groove (but will be trickier to set up).

OTOH, the Replicant 120 and Gyger S have a side radius of around 5~6um, about double that of the microridge. FWIW, the Ogura PA has about 3um. A larger side radius is kinder if you are playing records made of fragile materials (like molded styrene), but the larger side radius will fit less well into very high frequency groove undulations, which get smaller the shorter the signal wavelength (IOW, the higher the frequency).

In summary, rather than what is better or worse, these stylus profiles were designed with different philosophies and priorities, and different styli may be preferred depending on what the cartridge designer wants to achieve for a specific model.

The longer major radius of the Gyger S suggests that you will need to be more careful of azimuth during setup, while the microridge won't be quite so demanding in this respect (but more so than with a PA). Molded styrene records may be OK with the Gyger S, but should be kept away away from cartridges with microridge or PA styli.

regards and hth, jonathan carr (lyra cartridge designer)


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AlessandroCatalano
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Numero di messaggi : 648
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Re: Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da AlessandroCatalano Mar Mag 18, 2021 9:05 pm

carloc ha scritto:Ciao Alessandro,
ti giro quello che ne pensa in merito un tale John Carr

Among cartridge manufacturers, "micro line" is used only to refer to the microline and microridge styli manufactured by Namiki Jewel. Among audiophiles, however, it appears to be used more broadly to designate advanced line-contact styli in general, which is wrong and a source of confusion.

The major hallmark of the microridge profile is that contact with the LP groove is achieved by side wings or ridges that protrude to either side of the stylus. If you could look at a microridge from directly above with a microscope, you would see that these ridges stand proud of the main section of the stylus, and have a very narrow side radius of 2.5um. Due to the small side radius, the microridge has better high-frequency capabilities than any other stylus shape, and due to the protruding nature of the ridges, the microridge can be worn perceptibly and still retain its high-frequency tracking capabilities. With other stylus profiles, wear causes the side radii to become bigger and bigger, and this means that the high-frequency tracking capabilities deteriorate.

However, there is more to a stylus than just the side radius. If you look at a line-contact stylus from the front, you will see that it is shaped like a spearhead with curved (convex) blades. This curvature is referred to as the major radius, and the shape and size determines the vertical length of the stylus' contact patch with the LP groove. The larger the major radius, the longer the contact patch becomes, but alignment becomes less tolerant of errors.

The the Ogura PA has major radius of 30~35um, the microridges have a major radius of about 70~75um, while stylii like the Replicant 120 and Gyger S will have a major radius of about 120um. As you can surmise, the microridges can track more of the groove than a PA, and a Gyger S can track even more of the groove (but will be trickier to set up).

OTOH, the Replicant 120 and Gyger S have a side radius of around 5~6um, about double that of the microridge. FWIW, the Ogura PA has about 3um. A larger side radius is kinder if you are playing records made of fragile materials (like molded styrene), but the larger side radius will fit less well into very high frequency groove undulations, which get smaller the shorter the signal wavelength (IOW, the higher the frequency).

In summary, rather than what is better or worse, these stylus profiles were designed with different philosophies and priorities, and different styli may be preferred depending on what the cartridge designer wants to achieve for a specific model.

The longer major radius of the Gyger S suggests that you will need to be more careful of azimuth during setup, while the microridge won't be quite so demanding in this respect (but more so than with a PA). Molded styrene records may be OK with the Gyger S, but should be kept away away from cartridges with microridge or PA styli.

regards and hth, jonathan carr (lyra cartridge designer)

Caro Carlo,

Sei incredibile nello scovare articoli di questo genere !!! Molto molto interessante quanto scritto da J. Carr ... anche se alla fin fine non risolutivo ... ad ognuno il suo stilo secondo i propri gusti e secondo il tipo di disco utilizzato.

Un saluto

Alessandro


_________________
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AA Puccini Anniversary by Airtech - SME Model 10 - SME Series IV - Stage-Phono Benz Micro PP1 T9 Benz Micro LP - Sonus faber Olympica II - Cavi: Airtech Zero (Prototipi Test Alimentazione, Interconnessione, potenza e phono), Airtech Alfa carbonio Alimentazione dedicata alla PSU dello SME. Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 972395
carloc
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Re: Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da carloc Mar Mag 18, 2021 9:10 pm

Ma si, io non mi farei tanti problemi. MR, Ogura PA, Gyger S sono tagli molto evoluti e vanno bene tutti.

Poi se vogliamo parlare di sesso degli angeli il discorso è diverso.  Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 650957


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AlessandroCatalano
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Numero di messaggi : 648
Data d'iscrizione : 12.02.17
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Re: Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da AlessandroCatalano Mar Mag 18, 2021 9:11 pm

carloc ha scritto:Ma si, io non mi farei tanti problemi. MR, Ogura PA, Gyger S sono tagli molto evoluti e vanno bene tutti.

Poi se vogliamo parlare di sesso degli angeli il discorso è diverso.  Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 650957

Giustissimo Carlo !!! Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 650957sunny

Buona serata

Alessandro


_________________
Alessandro

AA Puccini Anniversary by Airtech - SME Model 10 - SME Series IV - Stage-Phono Benz Micro PP1 T9 Benz Micro LP - Sonus faber Olympica II - Cavi: Airtech Zero (Prototipi Test Alimentazione, Interconnessione, potenza e phono), Airtech Alfa carbonio Alimentazione dedicata alla PSU dello SME. Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 972395
Franz84
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Re: Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da Franz84 Mer Mag 19, 2021 7:51 pm

J. Carr è sempre illuminante, un grande progettista che mette a disposizione della comunità audiofila mondiale il suo sapere, leggerlo è sempre molto istruttivo.

A me personalmente piacciono moltissimo gli stili della Ogura, sia il 3x70 che il PF, entrambi contact line. La scelta dello stilo è sempre dettata dal tipo di suono che il progettista intende ottenere ..

Sulla FR7 montammo con Daniele di Cartridge il Microridge, ed il risultato è a detta di tutti coloro che l'hanno ascoltata, tra cui anche Alessandro, davvero di rilievo. Il Micro ridge è un grande stilo ..


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AlessandroCatalano
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Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge Empty Re: Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge

Messaggio Da AlessandroCatalano Mer Mag 19, 2021 7:57 pm

Franz84 ha scritto:J. Carr è sempre illuminante, un grande progettista che mette a disposizione della comunità audiofila mondiale il suo sapere, leggerlo è sempre molto istruttivo.

A me personalmente piacciono moltissimo gli stili della Ogura, sia il 3x70 che il PF, entrambi contact line. La scelta dello stilo è sempre dettata dal tipo di suono che il progettista intende ottenere ..

Sulla FR7 montammo con Daniele di Cartridge il Microridge, ed il risultato è a detta di tutti coloro che l'hanno ascoltata, tra cui anche Alessandro, davvero di rilievo. Il Micro ridge è un grande stilo ..

Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 704751 Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 704751 Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 704751 Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 704751

Un saluto

Alessandro


_________________
Alessandro

AA Puccini Anniversary by Airtech - SME Model 10 - SME Series IV - Stage-Phono Benz Micro PP1 T9 Benz Micro LP - Sonus faber Olympica II - Cavi: Airtech Zero (Prototipi Test Alimentazione, Interconnessione, potenza e phono), Airtech Alfa carbonio Alimentazione dedicata alla PSU dello SME. Stili Fritz Gyeger S vs. Micro Ridge 972395

    La data/ora di oggi è Ven Dic 02, 2022 5:29 pm